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gdickelman
 Moderator
1190 Posts
[Mentor]
Annandale, VA
USA
Moto Guzzi
California Vintage
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 Posted - 10/23/2009 : 7:55 AM
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I drove across PA and CT two weeks ago, and am about to head for NC today. I've seen many deer carcasses on the road, and each time I see one I get a sinking feeling. Is it worth the risk? Having experienced a deer "falling out of the sky" and intercepting my Pathfinder a few years ago, I know that there are scenarios where I will not see the deer and it will be bad. I know that my almost-60-year-old reactions are not what they used to be. Enough to make me stop riding? Not yet. I try to add strategies, but the fact is that I enjoy the activity way too much to give it up just yet.
Glad you are okay. Just think: That's one more deer you will not have to worry about.  |
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Texasphotographer
Advanced Member
827 Posts
[Mentor]
Copperas Cove, Texas
USA
Honda
2006 GL1800 Trike
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Posted - 10/23/2009 : 12:21 PM
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Couple of weeks ago I watched my son swerve to miss a deer that encroached in his space. I thought that was totally in control. Next day, I had another deer run in front of me and was able to slow to make this a non-incident. This one where I hit the deer I was not able to do anything regarding reaction other than acknowledge there was a deer running in front of me and would I miss him? Nope.
I fully realize my reaction time is not very good. If this is cause not to ride except in groups then I will be OK with that decision.
I am a careful rider, but may no longer have the physical abilities to be a safe rider. |
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SkootchNC
Advanced Member
599 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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Posted - 10/23/2009 : 3:38 PM
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Don't be so hard on yourself, Tex....
A deer strike can come with ample warning, allowing you time to slow, or swerve, or both..... or? they can come out from a thick overgrown area, giving you no time to do much, but cringe.
Right now it's time to reflect, and consider what, if anything you could have done differently. No one but you can really say what chance you had.
Take your time and heal. That is your main objective. You've just had a serious accident, and it's reasonable to weigh your option.
I'm certainly NOT the eagle eyed youth with cat like reflects I was in my 20's.... I like to imagine, I'm wiser, and don't have to call upon those traits now, that I'm pushing 60 |
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Niebor
Ex-Member
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Posted - 10/24/2009 : 1:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Texasphotographer
I fully realize my reaction time is not very good. If this is cause not to ride except in groups then I will be OK with that decision.
I am a careful rider, but may no longer have the physical abilities to be a safe rider.
Of course our reaction time increases with age. Our ability to spot a problem before it becomes "a problem" should also improve, with age.
There are times we should avoid a road simply because, for example, we know Bambi is more active than normal, this time of day, time of year, etc. In this case, dusk, dawn and after dark. Some of my favorite forested rides fall into this category. I normally don't care for the interstate, but do favor it when it seems more marker posts than not, are blinking.  On 2-lane stretches, I tend to avoid speeds over 40-45 altogether, until I can see well beyond headlight range.
Of the "highly skilled" (my interpretation) rider crashes I hear of, Bambi appears to be taking out an inordinate percentage, usually after dark. |
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Texasphotographer
Advanced Member
827 Posts
[Mentor]
Copperas Cove, Texas
USA
Honda
2006 GL1800 Trike
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Posted - 10/24/2009 : 1:19 PM
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| I have been a deer hunter for many years. This was the first time on two wheels. However, I know deer traits and they tend to move early morning and close to dark. They also move as the weather gets colder as in this case. My deer strike occured at noon on a clear day. An hour earlier, 20 or more of us rode on the same road to have brunch. This, although, a country road is a well travelled country road and I did not anticipate a deer coming straight across the road. Not sure if it was bow and arrow season, but something spooked that deer to make it run across the road at full speed. I talked to the trooper that investigated the accident and he has seen deer accidents, but he mentioned they usually occur in the evenings, not during mid-day. |
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Niebor
Ex-Member
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Posted - 10/24/2009 : 2:16 PM
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Ahh yes, the glaring omission, hunting season. That time of year when virtually every pattern we take for granted has nothing to do with reality.
Even during hunting season, I'd sure like to think the broad daylight, zero warning ambush would be the rare exception. One might conclude you dropped the ball, and should have bought a lottery ticket.  If it's any consolation, it seems the odds against this happening to one rider, twice, are astronomical. |
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Texasphotographer
Advanced Member
827 Posts
[Mentor]
Copperas Cove, Texas
USA
Honda
2006 GL1800 Trike
Peer Review:
1
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Posted - 10/24/2009 : 6:22 PM
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Here are a couple of photos of my helmet. If these encourage anyone to be protected, I am almost glad to have had this occurance.
Look closely just below the visor. I did not notice that when I took the photos. I was looking at the visor scratches.
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Niebor
Ex-Member
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Posted - 10/25/2009 : 4:00 PM
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OK, I'll say it. Pretty clear that helmet made the difference between life and death. Well done! I think we all agree thats a vote in favor of helmets.
My heart goes out to you. We've discussed a number of your fumbles over the years. To be candid, your accounting of previous ones left me thinking you may not have taken quite the lesson I hoped you had. But I had faith you were improving, and well on your way toward the odds of bad things happening dropping into the negligable category. Then, low and behold, you actually have what appears to be a legitimate one-in-millions, un-preventable crash. Now, consider again the odds of that happening, twice.
I know, your saying "with my luck"... Heal well my friend.  |
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RHaynes
 Junior Member
35 Posts
Dudley, MA
USA
Yamaha
96 Virago 750
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Posted - 10/26/2009 : 10:44 AM
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Hope you're feeling better, less sore anyway.
Those shots belong in a gallery we can show our kids "THIS is why I *always* wear this stuff.... I dont' want THAT happening to my skin" |
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Gs82Seca650
Moderator
1950 Posts
[Mentor]
Southern, PA
USA
Yamaha
1982 XJ 650 R Seca
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Posted - 10/26/2009 : 5:42 PM
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Tex,
I don't get to spend much time in this forum, but I wanted to add my get well soon wishes to you. If you still have it in your blood, I hope you keep riding. You've had some unfortunate things happen. Honestly, I've had a number of near misses in my riding career and if a few of them had gone the other way, I'd be in the same boat you are.
I wouldn't be so quick to beat yourself up. Praise GOD you were wearing a FULL FACE helmet my friend. Imagine what your face would have looked like wearing a 3/4 or 1/2 helmet. I hope those of you on this board who wear those type of helmets look closely at the scratches and gouges in that visor and helmet. That looks like it would have half torn your face clean off without a helmet!
Give it some honest thought and than make a decision. Perhaps a "cruiser" style motorcycle is not for you? I recently rode a Suzuki C90T for a friend of mine who is disabled (trying to sell the bike) and needed it to be run.
I would assume that with time I could get proficient, but honestly, with my feet stuck way out in front of me and those large "ram horns" handle bars, I didn't feel like I had NEAR the control as I do on my SECA which is more of a "standard" with mid-set pegs and a fairly upright riding position.
Some food for thought. Take care partner. 
-Greg |
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gdickelman
Moderator
1190 Posts
[Mentor]
Annandale, VA
USA
Moto Guzzi
California Vintage
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 7:00 AM
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You mentioned three days in the hospital. What were your injuries? Besides the helmet, what gear were you wearing?
(I am inclined to request that this thread be moved to Lessons Learned. Good stuff, Tex.) |
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markstvn
Junior Member
28 Posts
Hampstead, MD
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sporster 883 Custom
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 8:13 AM
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I'm not quite as experienced as you, but I'm probably not getting back on a bike after my accident in July. I can relate to how you feel. Someone pulled out in front of me from a side parking lot, (I didn't even see them, they were behind a mound of dirt), I t-boned the van at 50. I'm feeling pretty good now, after two broken arms and four broken ribs. My full faced helmet probably saved my life, as I struck the van right on the chin part of the helmet which split in half. Three other motorcyclists died in the trauma room which I was being treated. I've read of at least 6 motorcyclist dying from hitting cars turning in front of them since my accident, the last one being a 17 year veteran of the county police on his way to work. I'm a new rider, less than a year, about 5000 miles. Its one thing to know that riding is inherently dangerous and say ok, I'll do everything I can to be safe. Its another to be in an accident and get injured and experience an accident up close and personal. I'm still trying to work out a 100 % safe way to ride in my mind, but it is of course impossible.
I wish you a speedy recovery, and I'm still trying to figure out that "100% safe way to ride". |
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Gs82Seca650
Moderator
1950 Posts
[Mentor]
Southern, PA
USA
Yamaha
1982 XJ 650 R Seca
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 8:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by markstvn
I wish you a speedy recovery, and I'm still trying to figure out that "100% safe way to ride".
There isn't one and likely won't ever be one. I love riding too much to give it up, so I just accept the fact that every time I swing a leg over, I may not come back in the same condition. It helps keep me focused and on top of my game. That, plus wearing all of the gear give you your best shot at coming back in one piece, in my opinion.
Good luck. |
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Texasphotographer
Advanced Member
827 Posts
[Mentor]
Copperas Cove, Texas
USA
Honda
2006 GL1800 Trike
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 1:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gdickelman
You mentioned three days in the hospital. What were your injuries? Besides the helmet, what gear were you wearing?
(I am inclined to request that this thread be moved to Lessons Learned. Good stuff, Tex.)
Gary,
Injuries: Broken bone in left shoulder, 5 cracked ribs, hole in left elbow, lots of road rash and a severely sprained left ankle. May have stretched some tendons in the ankle as well as it continues to be swollen and hurts something awful.
Protective gear: Helmet(already discussed) Shoei has selected my story and helmet photo to be on their Wall of Fame. My son will photograph the helmet in the next day or so to send to them.
I had a leather vest on plus 8" heavy riding boots with two pair of sweat socks. Even with the tall boots, my ankle got turned pretty badly. I was wearing armored-back leather gloves and did not suffer any hand injuries. |
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Night Train
Moderator
1332 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 2:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by markstvn
I'm not quite as experienced as you, but I'm probably not getting back on a bike after my accident in July. I can relate to how you feel. Someone pulled out in front of me from a side parking lot, (I didn't even see them, they were behind a mound of dirt), I t-boned the van at 50. I'm feeling pretty good now, after two broken arms and four broken ribs. My full faced helmet probably saved my life, as I struck the van right on the chin part of the helmet which split in half. Three other motorcyclists died in the trauma room which I was being treated. I've read of at least 6 motorcyclist dying from hitting cars turning in front of them since my accident, the last one being a 17 year veteran of the county police on his way to work. I'm a new rider, less than a year, about 5000 miles. Its one thing to know that riding is inherently dangerous and say ok, I'll do everything I can to be safe. Its another to be in an accident and get injured and experience an accident up close and personal. I'm still trying to work out a 100 % safe way to ride in my mind, but it is of course impossible.
I wish you a speedy recovery, and I'm still trying to figure out that "100% safe way to ride".
There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do and it is certainly understandable. You may never ride again but rather find something else to fill the gap, or you may return to riding at a later date or different time in your life. If the day comes that you are ready again, you will know it. Until then, don't lament the fact that you are going with your instincts. I find they rarely steer us wrong. |
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gdickelman
Moderator
1190 Posts
[Mentor]
Annandale, VA
USA
Moto Guzzi
California Vintage
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 6:24 PM
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quote:
[i]
Gary,
Injuries: Broken bone in left shoulder, 5 cracked ribs, hole in left elbow, lots of road rash and a severely sprained left ankle. May have stretched some tendons in the ankle as well as it continues to be swollen and hurts something awful.
Protective gear: Helmet(already discussed) Shoei has selected my story and helmet photo to be on their Wall of Fame. My son will photograph the helmet in the next day or so to send to them.
I had a leather vest on plus 8" heavy riding boots with two pair of sweat socks. Even with the tall boots, my ankle got turned pretty badly. I was wearing armored-back leather gloves and did not suffer any hand injuries.
Going down after T-boning a deer at 70mph makes me think that your injuries are not so severe, all things considered. I broke two ribs wearing heavy, CE protected gear doing a low-side at around 50mph.
For the sake of lessons, do you think any of the road rash might have been mitigate by different gear (e.g., leather & CE protected pants, etc.)? Were your shoulders and elbows protected by similar? Just wondering. |
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gdickelman
Moderator
1190 Posts
[Mentor]
Annandale, VA
USA
Moto Guzzi
California Vintage
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 6:35 PM
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Note: My round-trip between DC and Durham, NC this past weekend was very cautious regarding deer. I counted six carcasses on the road.
I positioned myself for maximum scanning, and I covered brake and clutch the entire way. I did a lot of looking left, right, forward; left, right, forward...especially when the road was bounded by woods (which is about 70% of the trip). I kept thinking about your mishap and realizing that it could happen to me. There will always be that scenario that is a no-win.
I saw a bumper sticker on a pickup truck: "I fear the deer." |
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haithabu
Standard Member
232 Posts
Canmore, Alberta
Canada
Honda
Varadero
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ananga73
Ex-Member
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Posted - 10/28/2009 : 6:16 AM
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Tex,
I wish you a speedy recovery. These deer are quite a problem. Just yesterday I very barely avoided hitting one while I was exiting onto the interstate at about 60 mph.
This would not happen where I am originally from in the backwoods where I am originally from. We have hunted Bambi to near extinction, the few that are left would not dare venture onto the roadway.
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Texasphotographer
Advanced Member
827 Posts
[Mentor]
Copperas Cove, Texas
USA
Honda
2006 GL1800 Trike
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Posted - 10/28/2009 : 9:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gdickelman
Going down after T-boning a deer at 70mph makes me think that your injuries are not so severe, all things considered. I broke two ribs wearing heavy, CE protected gear doing a low-side at around 50mph.
For the sake of lessons, do you think any of the road rash might have been mitigate by different gear (e.g., leather & CE protected pants, etc.)? Were your shoulders and elbows protected by similar? Just wondering.
[/quote]
Gary, you are correct when you say t-boning a deer at 70 MPH and the injuries I suffered may not be so severe. I could have died. However, I am the one in pain right now so self-pity  is only one of a few things I can hold onto.
Had I been wearing more armor I probably would not have suffered so much road rash or the puncture to my elbow. Will I ride again without full protection? I don't know, but I have more respect for safety gear than I did a couple of weeks ago. I wore heavy Bates Boots that lace almost to the shin. Yet, with my speed and rolling as many times as I did, my left ankle is really sore. I may be looking for a different pair of boots.
Conclusion: I am a lucky guy. I am still alive. I feel I owe that 99% to the quality of the Shoei helmet I was wearing. |
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